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Lettera Version: 1.0.0
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macOS Version: 26.5.1
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What were you doing: dragging local folder to sidebar
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What happened: The folder showed up but when I added a subfolder in Finder it wasn’t there. I then created an MD file which also didn’t show up so I looked at the iCloud Lettera Folder and that’s where the folders and file ended up.
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What did you expect to happen: I expected the sidebar to simply point to my local folder and update accordingly as it should recognize the source location and not make a copy in iCloud. That’s what I expected as was also communicated in your “Welcome to Lettera” file.
Also, not sure if there was a bug report template via this web page so I just pasted it from someone else’s report.
How would you prefer feedback, as it happens, daily, weekly, etc.?
I just began using it and hoping to not be redundant as I am checking before posting.
thanks -tom
Thanks Matteo. It’s not intuitive as you mentioned. I think I would expect the app to simply be a pointer in any of the scenarios you mention above but I can see why you’d copy the folders to the iCloud location similar to what happens with Finder.
The app does behave successfully as you describe and once known, it does seem like if would be easy to remember.
What I didn’t expect was a new window to be created. It looks like the sidebar will represent the top-level folder that you’ve opened and the default window being iCloud. Have you considered the method used by Apple Notes where the sidebar shows all top level “folders” and also has a clear separation between iCloud and Local folders. See screenshot.
My personal preference would be to use the Notes Sidebar implementation but also allow for opening the file in it’s own window but not sure the folder needs to be separate. I understand you’ll need to make a call on which way to go as least initially.
I’d like to add my two cents here as well. As this happened to me, I dragged a folder into the sidebar, assuming it was pointing to the actual folder on my Mac. When I made changes, I noticed they weren’t updated in the folder. I think pointing to the local folder would be my assumed expectation and my desire for an app like this.
What I imagine is having several different folders throughout my Mac and dropping them all into the sidebar and seeing them collected all in one place in Lettera.
indeed the current behavior is very unintuitive
I don’t really understand why this is considered counterintuitive. After all many file based apps work this way: when you drag and drop files or folders from the Finder into their file browser, they get even moved from its old place (f.e. in iA Writer or Nota).
Am I right in assuming that your main concern is being able to quickly switch between your most important folders so you don’t always have to go to the main menu to open one of them? But wouldn’t the solution then be to mark a few folders as favorites in Lettera so you can access them quickly, for example from Lettera’s toolbar or a dropdown menu or whatever? The advantage of this solution is that it stays within the existing structure rather than completely overhauling the app.
Most editors that let you open a FOLDER will create a pointer to the folder and open the folder in the original location. They only move the folder if the user drags and drops a folder as a child to an already opened folder. This is how it works in vscode, sublime, Ulysses, ia writer (if the folder is dragged to the correct, root location that in ia writer is the locations sidebar section ia writer only moves/copies the contents when the folder is dropped as a child of an already opened location).
It’s counterintuitive because the app allows opening folders. So when a user drags and drops a folder as a root location in the sidebar they expect it to be opened and not copied. But this doesn’t work because the sidebar itself is considered the root of the opened folder, without the root folder being represented as a folder icon. Every folder in the sidebar is in fact a CHILD of a root folder, with no ui affordance to set this expectation.
indeed Mateo has said in the above quoted comment that the WINDOW represents the current opened folder which is very clearly not intuitive at all.
It’s counterintuitive because when one first opens the app there’s already an open folder (the Lettera iCloud folder) and the whole sidebar is considered one root opened folder with no ui indication that this is so.
This would no fix the issue, as I may want to work in folders in separate hierarchies.
I don’t know what you mean with “folders in different hierarchies”. Mind explaining?
However, the “Locations” section in iA Writer is not its file browser. It’s something entirely different and additional. What you’re envisioning for Lettera, namely displaying multiple folders from different locations within a file browser, isn’t possible in iA Writer either. My suggestion regarding favorites was aimed at transferring this feature from iA Writer’s organizer to Lettera.
As I said, the file browser in iA Writer works exactly like in Lettera, except that it even moves the dropped folder instead of copying it.
No. In ia writer the root opened folders are the locations sidebar section ones. So of course if you drag a folder in their children (the item list) the folder is moved. You can’t compare the item list in ia writer and say it’s the same as lettera’s sidebar because they’re different navigation lists. in ia writer, the item list is always a child of a locations root folder. And so dragging and dropping resulting in a move operation is intuitive, expected and really the only sensible option
The difference is that the root in Lettera is the window/sidebar itself.This is counterintuitive. There’s no separate opened folders list in Lettera. In apps that have a single folder list, like Ulysses each folder root in the sidebar are opened folders. move operations only happen when an item is dropped as a child.
My point was: What do you want in Lettera? An organizer additional to its file browser? Or do you want Lettera to merge this organizational areas into a single one? If the first one then there is probably a more elegant way (drop down list for favorites, favorite button in toolbar, sidebar icons or whatever) than adding visual clutter in form of an additional pane. But if it’s the latter then you can’t cite iA Writer as a role model, since it distinguishes between the organizer and the file browser for a very good reason.
I don’t want to speak for the devs but I think I can say that will never happen. It’s rare for an app to be rewritten just because someone actually needs a different app. 
There are other ways to achieve this without abandoning the app’s concept.
Stepping back in here again. I think @matteo said it best. First, he recognized that they have not done a good job at explaining how it works but his response to me addressed that. Can they make it more obvious as to what the sidebar contains and where the folders all reside, yes. They’re just pointers to your storage whether in iCloud, local, or hell even google, the app shouldn’t care nor would we want it to.
Now, the startup is an issue since they felt they had to assume a location and they picked the only one they have access to, iCloud and that assumes your Mac session is actually logged into iCloud (it doesn’t have to be - think local only user, I know, how many would do that, edge case). Maybe they don’t pick a location and let you do that the first time.
Personally, I’d like to have multiple top-level folders in the sidebar along with any children that I can navigate within the sidebar, like Finder. It’s 100% convenience and once I open the folder it will remain in the sidebar when I quit and restart, again, just a bunch of pointers. You can always go to those folders via Finder and do whatever you’d like.
I don’t like that when I drag-drop a folder it made a copy into iCloud and like Finder, when I click on the folder name in the sidebar, maybe show me the path in the status bar so I know where it is exactly or some means to show me vs rt-click and open the location in Finder.
Anyway, I’m just talking about the obvious I hope and I do believe they’re wanting to keep this simple and ack our feedback as all of this consumes their valuable time too.
-tom
They may not actively be using iCloud storage but once they have logged-in with their iCloud account the app would have access to it I think unless you have to enable iCloud Files (don’t remember).
I agree that Dropbox and Google could easily be one of those locations where folks store their files,100%. This is why this process of opening, dragging, and pointing to folders has to be intuitive, I shouldn’t have to check or double check.
I think Matteo mentioned that it was their default case to start with but am believing/hoping they will revisit some of their startup assumptions. I think they should ask the user for the location if not already known which means the first time someone fires up the app.. I do think there may be a number of app settings like this to provide the default folder. I want to open up several root folders that may contain child folders and I’d like to see them all in the sidebar with some simple way for me to see where they are physically (dropbox, Mac, google, iCloud, etc.. And that last part is only needed if I can’t trust what the app may have done with them. I do think I’d want to hover over the folder and have it remind me if I forgot as sometimes life gets complicated and you forget.
-tom
It’s clear now that the handling of the default folder (iCloud today) will be addressed in the coming days ahead whether prior to the production release or not based on what I’ve read it will be addressed.
Also, I now have a better understanding of how the windows and sidebar is working and I’m just fine with it. Merging all those folders into the single sidebar is not trivial and quite honestly may simply create unnecessary complexities for everyone.
I am also able to use the MacOS feature for window handling by using the menu “window->merge all windows” which brings everything into a single window with multiple tabs and the sidebar is context responsive meaning it will reflect the parent folder where the file lives in the file system, perfect for me.
thanks -tom
Dragging a folder onto the sidebar – not shift-dragging to copy the folder onto Lettera iCloud folder – causes both Finder and Lettera to freeze. Finder will eventually recover, but Lettera takes a long time to analyze the folder and files within, and a subsequent relaunch of the app triggers another slow refresh.
Aside from this operation being counterintuitive and slow, I dislike how each workspace defaults to using just one tab. I need to right-click and choose Open in New Tab to open the file in another tab.
And very frequently, tabs (workspaces) are randomly removed upon launching, requiring me to do another drop.
Ideally, each workspace should persist on the sidebar.